Episode 21: "THOUGHT COLLAB" feat. 8ULENTINA *FULL EPISODE ON PATREON*

Catching us in, you know, mid-career. My career as a podcaster. Okay, I think we're back. I think we're good. Okay, cool. Oh, wait, no. No, we're not. No, we're not. No, we're not. Now we are bored. So I'm repressed and boring. Dude, he's so slick with it. Yeah, yeah This is agriculture Is that pretty good?

I like it. I go to sleep, snobby pilot. We'll be right back. something that was like close to dance music but like not exactly a DJ or there would be like someone doing like a laptop DJ set but it was like the scene there it was like everything in one space like the punk kids and the rap kids and the noise kids would kind of be in the same show at least like before 2014 I would say that was kind of more of the vibe there was like tons of warehouses or house shows random like storefronts where people would throw shows and then yeah i don't know i mean to be honest there wasn't like a lot of like queer parties that were not in san francisco and i think like if you live in oakland the san francisco scene is kind of different because it's been like super gentrified so it's mostly just bars and clubs and the train ends at midnight so if you live in oakland like unless you have friends over there you're probably not partying in sf you're like trying to go to like something that's not as legitimate as like being in a massive club you know so a lot of things were like just the band a band would be like throwing a party and it would be kind of like a one-off thing and i would get booked to randomly open for like punk bands or people doing like i don't know like rap kids doing like

a party for their record or me and Lara randomly played like a Fizz music festival like a Bay Area hyphy festival like when we first started Club Tri like actually right when we got back from Europe we were like that was our first show back was like this festival called Fizzler Jam and it was all like hyphy rap and then like one of the kids who was kind of like the younger kids who was a part of the scene who knew a lot of the like more experimental producers and was like oh yeah like These kids DJ, like, really weird electronic music that's, like, inspired by a lot of the, like, Laura and I were really obsessed with a lot of, like, production style that was happening in that music. But we were, we didn't really want to have, like, a nostalgic throwback party. But we felt like a lot of those kids still fucked with us. So, yeah, it was interesting. I feel like. It was less of like just a queer scene and more like everyone was kind of like in the same scene in some way, which was actually really cool, I think. And then when we started Club Chai, we were like, OK, it would be cool to have something like that's not in a club that's a little bit more curated because as cool as it is to have all this shit going on at once, like no one was really getting paid well. Like there was always kind of like something going wrong with sound or like it just there wasn't anyone who had the support or like. structure to kind of like keep it going so it would just be something really sick and it would disappear so we were like okay let's do something in warehouses and we found a space and sort of started doing stuff but now there's like a lot of people doing like renegade raves that are like outdoor generator raves a lot of queer kids throwing them like board lord is still in oakland amazing dj we met her through like our cdj workshop like the first one we ever did actually she came through to learn cdjs and then we were like oh obviously we should just be friends and like know each other so a lot of stuff like i feel like happened through not actually queer nightlife spaces but just other

spaces that where people were like oh this should exist because they didn't really we didn't really have like That's tucked in. Clipped tucked in. Hypey. And move like a smoker on bleem on the block. And don't be mad if your homies got shot. TJ, that nigga that you need in your life. I'm sick from the jaw. Look at me on the mic. Crazy. Gas break dip on you hoes. And if you feel the hype, you're gonna smoke up your goals. Hanging out to some roof. Blowing the dope. The homie got the chop up under the picoat. Go crazy. Stupid. Dumb. Retardant. Northern California gonna shoot up a party. Left coat. Best. And when you guys started Plug Chai, you were taking a warehouse and running everything top to bottom, right? Yeah, so we were renting out the sound, hiring the door, buying all the alcohol, hiring the bar people. Yeah. Doing all the booking. Yeah. Everything. Sounds grueling. It was crazy. Yeah, it was for sure. I mean, we had so many friends that like pulled resources together. So it wasn't like we were paying for everything. We had like a homie that had a really big sound system and he had been a part of the Bay Area rave scene for years and he was just like. I want to support this. So he would usually in the beginning was just kind of donating his sound system to us. And then once we got to a point where we were like making money, we were like throwing him money as a rental. Similar to the CDJs, we didn't have any. So a friend just lent us them. And then we ended up buying those same CDJs from like the first club try off of them eventually because we were like, we need these for events and no clubs here have them.

When we first went to Europe and we saw that all the clubs had gear, we were like, what the hell? Y'all have stuff. We were just kind of surprised because I think we just came from a really resourceless scene. And even though there were venues in San Francisco that had that stuff, there was kind of like a barrier of entry until we got to like... a point where we were like three years in to club chai where they were like oh okay we'll work with you because you have a sponsor but even then it was like a fight to like get san francisco clubs to like work with us even though our parties would sell out they would be like your crowd doesn't like drink enough or like we're still not making enough money on this um but i think they just didn't really like culturally fuck with it so who was the sponsor uh we were doing stuff with red bull music for a bit which was cool because they would give us some money to like book people and then just be like Here, put a Red Bull fridge and some Red Bulls. You don't have to put our name on anything unless it's a Red Bull Presents event. So that was actually sick because the person that we were working with was born and raised in Oakland, and he had a really good understanding of the music scene. And I feel like he didn't take that much convincing. It was more just him kind of being our translator to other people. But it was cool that he was from the Bay and actually understood. what we were trying to do but was also part of kind of like other scenes that we weren't a part of and could kind of help us out in more of like professionalizing it or just language we didn't really understand or like certain like larger event stuff right we were just kind of like in a very like diy punk adjacent realm where we were just like we know we can like create the hell out of something but like we don't know how to like convince someone to give us Did you fight with the kind of like Bay Area punk music at the time? I did. I feel like I went to a lot more punk shows before I had Club Chai and like started organizing shows. And I think that like the punk scene, noise scene and like the metal scene there really like got me into just being in a space with sound that was like DIY, where I was like, oh, there's something super powerful about.

being able to organize something with all of your friends, pay them all. It's like kind of generating your own like mini economy and not having to deal with like anyone else legitimizing your music. And then on top of that, just like what you can do sound wise felt like really open compared to like what I had experienced with DJing at that point, which like wasn't, I wasn't really going to raves as much or there just wasn't as many raves for me to go to. Yeah. It's interesting to talk about the idea of creating your own economy because I do feel like that approach is so much more fulfilling. Yeah. But it's so difficult to sustain. It's so hard. Just in terms of the amount of work you have to do, the amount of money you have to have, like just to be able to put up money to do things. Yeah. I mean, there's always someone to like making a financial sacrifice who's like getting paid less or doing way more labor than someone else, you know, or just donating some shit. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I feel, I mean, but like the flip side of those kinds of environments is that you become better equipped to stand up for your own worth. Yeah. As like a DJ or an artist or like a performer. And I think you actually like know why you make what you make or you like. Yeah. Or like what, how to explain your sound or your context because you kind of had to like make it for yourself. And I think a lot of people now who maybe have access to tons of venues, which is super actually. an amazing resource to have like I kind of envy some of the younger kids in New York where I'm like oh you have like all these clubs like if you want to throw a party you can hit up mood ring or mansions or boss or and you can throw something without the risk of like losing tons of money and like renting gear and doing all this stuff but I think it also makes it where people don't feel like they have to like discover their sound as much or like create a context as much because the context is already there and they know

There will be people there who are fucked up who will dance to anything. So they don't really have to like think about their sound or like make the party like have a sound or even if that's not the point, just be like super authentic where, I don't know, we would have like for our three year anniversary at like one of the biggest SF clubs, we'd like had them do like a noise set at like peak hour, you know, and it cleared the room. But I was kind of like, I was kind of like, this is the point. Like we want to like. have this in this club like just on a I don't know just sonically and just like on an experiential level it felt like important for us to if we're gonna access this space we should actually like you should go kamikaze mode yeah we kind of did we went crazy we like brought like Venus X we had her we had shy boy me and then we had um This, like, female rap crew from East Oakland come, and they had, like, ten girls on stage. This rapper, King Kee, and she just had, like, this whole crew. And it was, like, yeah, it was probably, like... the weirdest party that that club had ever had we were trying to book even a weirder lineup and they told us it was like an opera and that we couldn't book it because we had just gone back from like unsound or something and we were like oh we're gonna bring you like the craziest shit you've ever heard we were like we want to book gabber modus operandi in the middle of the club and they were like this is insane like we're you're not gonna do that i think that the point you made about a beat being um forced by the pressures of your environment to like iterative iteratively arrive at the sound that works for you does the strikes like an optimal balance between the things that you're good at and interested in versus what people will respond to if you're operating in a scene that's as you say like more resourceless or wherein the infrastructure is less established is like a it's just super useful like I think yeah like I've never had to go through that like London is similar to New York in the sense that

there is like an inbuilt audience of some kind and I don't think we necessarily have ever operated within like the strictures of like a really really tightly defined sound just because the the audience is there and the audience in general is a little bit more omnivorous than might be the case in where you were operating. Yeah. Yeah, I think it benefits you too because you also have people from all these different scenes that fuck with you and will show up to your shows. And so when we wanted to book people that were maybe not dance music or DJ people, they just trusted what we were doing. And we're like, oh, okay, this is cool. I'm not going to be trolled, right? Or like, you know, because I think sometimes you're like, oh, are these kids going to get it? And I think also Oakland has such a legacy and a history of both music and... politically that you can't just like pop up and do something without people kind of being like what are your intentions like what are you doing like and I think both Lara being born and raised in San Francisco and me like being there for like I don't know six years before I ever organized anything I think I was just in like I want to go to as many shows as possible and just see what the scene is like before I even think that I know how to contribute to this scene or even know like how to organize something that isn't doing something that someone else is already doing really well for years. But I think for us, we were like, okay, if we can incorporate like someone from a scene that we're not super a part of, but really respect and also feel like isn't really culturally represented outside of the Bay Area. And maybe we have the way to do that through like the internet or just like the communities that we had built through like SoundCloud or like... yeah just online then it made sense and it was fun to like have kids who maybe weren't into dance music be like oh this is really similar to what i did

Or you said you and Rob first came to contact on Facebook? No, I think it was SoundCloud and then Facebook. SoundCloud first, probably, yeah. And then Facebook, yeah. Was it the TT mix that we first interacted for? Way longer. Because I've been sending you music for, like, years. I think you first sent me music. The first, like, clear memory I have is actually, like, the first week I moved to London talking to you. And you sent me a bunch of tracks. Oh, yeah, because when we met, you still lived in Watford, right? Quite possibly, yeah. And I... I think I played one of your tracks on Radar Radio very, very early into Radar Radio existing, I think. And then one other clear memory I have is playing an edit of yours the first ever time I went on NTS, which was at some point mid-2015. That's crazy. So yeah, it goes back a long way. And then I think we did the first record together in 2016. So how did you guys come to realize that there was some common standing? I think it was being into things like Night Slugs and Fade to Mind. Yeah, and just like edits and things like we were just sharing music. Exactly. Yeah. And I think the funny thing to remember about this is like specifically edits. Now, you know, there's like an RA best edits of the year. Yeah, RA do a best edits of the year as part of their year roundup. Back then it was like beyond... uh like you mentioned like a venus x total freedom not even really nice like fade to mine basically and the things that seem to operate around that i don't i could be wrong in saying this but i don't feel like no people really didn't play edits people didn't have an interest in pop and rap music having a place or at the time they'd have an interest in pop and rap music having a place in the kind of dance canon right and i think that yeah one yeah as i remember that that's kind of the shared vibe i was also a huge organ tapes fan and we had i've been talking to tim online and then i was like oh yeah like tim is a part of this label too and then it all kind of connected and like the first time we met was at hub when you were doing a show and tim was performing yeah

Yeah. I was staying at Hub. Yep. I remember waking up from like a jet lag nap and like opening the curtain. Yeah, I remember this. Tim was performing and I literally cried. Like I was like, oh my God, like this is the best music I've ever heard in my life. Well, let's not go overboard. No, but this was, you know. He's pretty good. But I was like, you know, it was like, how old were we? I was 22, 23. We were, you know, feeling the music. Was this like World Life era? Yeah, 2016. It was an AF85 album release party. AF85's done album? I was so jet lagged. I felt like I was hallucinating. Or an EP, right? Or an EP. The first AF85 record on TT. It was that release party. Yeah. Sorry, Ezra, you were? No, yeah. I was just really jet lagged and I felt like the emotions, you know. overdrive you know when you're so tired you're like hallucinating and you hear your favorite song and you're like it's over all right you're hallucinating that the music was good i remember you telling a very early memory of you telling me before maybe this is before the before word life came out but you had a copy of it that you're like coming down really hard in philly list or Oh yeah, I know. I was listening to a Logan Tapes album here actually. Okay. It was like our first, the first US tour I ever did was like me, DJ Haram, Haram and Nargis. And we were here playing at Trans Picos when it was like people, it used to be this venue where people like still live there, kind of like live work vibe. And now it's not like that. But they used to have a basement that was just pitch black. And we played there, and then one of the guys who lived there was like, do y'all want some Molly? And we were like, sure. And then we did it in the bathroom, and we were both just like, this is really bad Molly, but we're going to chain smoke and listen to organ tapes. And I remember making this really weird spaghetti, thinking that somehow I would be able to eat, and it would like... the mall it would go away but like who eats on molly like i don't know i was just tripping i like the phrase really weird well i just was like why am i making like really i don't know extensive pasta at like five in the morning like a lot and then yeah we tried to eat it and it like felt really weird to eat and we were just like yeah this is definitely feels like rude

On speed. You know? Yeah, that's when you, yeah, you're a couple of hours in and you realize it wasn't. You're like, ooh, this is cut with that shit. This was speed, yeah. You're just like clenching. Yeah, because it's when you realize that the euphoria isn't going to come. No. You're just in this really like angsty, angry place. Yeah. Yeah. The pasta zone. I don't know why I thought pasta would fix it or that wouldn't feel insanely weird in my mouth, but it was a crazy thing to say. That was really bad. It was a sensory experience that I did not ask for. So what's extensive pasta? It was like bolognese, you know? Like meat sauce, I had to cut onions. I was just doing too much. I don't know. You were messing with the brunoise? I don't think I took it that far because I was in some random person's house staying there. And another reason why I shouldn't have been doing that. But this was another time. I was a different person then. I wanted to ask about the comp that you guys did together. Oh, yeah, I'm staying. So that was the first ever, ever, like, DJ mix I ever made had Nargiz's Oyun Oyun on it. That one's, like, a personal classic to me. The, like... Yeah. Whatever, like, over the, like... I guess like Middle Eastern sounding like instrumental. Yeah. Who is Nargis? So Nargis is from Philly and is a producer from there. We met also through like SoundCloud, internet kind of like edits. But honestly, I don't know what Nargis is up to these days. I'm trying to tap in. They've been laying low. Yeah, they've been laying low. I haven't like, I need to tap in with them, but I think they're kind of like. chilling you know but they are super talented producer like I feel like whenever they would send me music I would be like this is insane release it immediately but I don't know some people are just really low-key insanely talented and don't feel the need to like churn shit out you know sickening isn't it yeah but I don't know I actually it's funny because Nargis keeps coming up like

The last week I was with TJ Harrowman, we were like, where is she? What is she doing? We need to find her. But I don't know. I haven't heard from her in like at least two years. So, but I know she was kind of taking a break from music shit. But yeah, she was from Philly and then lived in New York for a while and booked, helped organize that New York show that we did. And yeah, just insanely talented producer. Yeah, I mean. That song holds a special place in my heart. I think that was also the first time I heard DJ Haram. What else appeared on that mic? So there was, Fuzul was on there, Bulentina was on there, Nargis, I'm looking at the track list now. Mohini, Kib, Selchuk, and DJ Haram. Yeah. Nice. Oh, and Mayeli? Yeah. a chance to give a lot of people that I knew who were making music but like I felt like it was all sonically really similar and also just like non-western diasporic sound that was like not coming from like cis men was really hard to find at the time that was like experimental too um and so I was like what if we just like put all of these on a compilation instead of just like constantly sending them to each other and like having them be like secret tracks and mixes and stuff so i think it was also just a way for me to to be like less scared about releasing my own shit and wanting to like push my friends to release shit too well i feel like this is also like a way to like capture the moment yeah and like codify a little bit yeah definitely and i think we were all at a similar place in like music making where we were making a lot of edits but

There wasn't a lot of people that we felt like we could draw from or like learn from or ask for support. So we were kind of all amongst each other, sending each other shit. And I think that just having like some sort of archive of that moment felt really important to me. And I think it was like before I was really ready to like. run a label so i was like what what does this even look like like is it possible for me to like try to do this before i actually do it um so it's like What is it? I mean, what do you feel?